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  1. #37
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    Then another sidenote notice the dates of everything 1998??? Phones just came out... So much has changed since then... I hate it when laws are outdated and especially when there is no advocacy group in place to let lawmakers know to "hey update this stuff already"

    That brings to mind also this.... I see IPHONE motherboards being sold on ebay (although it uses IMEI thats the same as an esn)... so if your phone breaks you can buy one of them and transplant that motherboard into your water damaged phone.... technically you have PARTS from 2 different phones... is that illegal??? Just curious on that one...anyone can "INTERPRET" that one?? DOES IT COME DOWN to that is hardware and not software swapping maybe?? IF IT IS considered illegal also then guess what, my philips head screwdriver and pry tool is doing the job of CDMA WORKSHOP....lol

  2. #38
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    Ok last post...lol... sorry insomnia kicking in and this interests me at the moment....

    Reading thru that .pdf, its all talking about cloning with intent to steal someones service yada yada some real cloak and dagger HACKERZ type stuff...by using SOMEONE ELSE's ESN/MIN combination.and having THEM foot the bill for calls you made... ummm.. what if it is your assigned MIN from whatever provider...?. Yes that is even ILLEGAL, but would this possibly be a facet to present into with future legislation?

    What I am getting at is THEY are talking SERVICE (Account) SPECIFIC in that .pdf when "we" are talking DEVICE specific....hope I got that across understandably...// So its like illegal to use someone else's SERVICE, where we are talking about using a privately owned DEVICE that would not interfere with another customer accont....

    Of course I am in noway condoning because IT IS ILLEGAL (still in ALL REGARDS)... I just want to understand better "why" and "what for"...and if there could be arguments to ADD TO the current legislation. Knowledge is power, unfortunately the lawmakers are PRESENTED knowledge that may not cover the FULL SCOPE sometimes..

    Hope I did not overstep or say something wrong here only trying to explore this issue to all degrees...and DEBATE this from a professional standpoint.
    Last edited by andersoncell; 11-17-2010 at 03:05 AM.

  3. #39
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    You have a dumb phone (interpreted a basic flip camera phone), you friend who is ON CONTRACT with Verizon has a nice new DROID INCREDIBLE... well your friend decided NOT TO PAY VERIZON ANYMORE and sold you the phone ridiculously cheap... So here you are with a great phone that wont activate on say pageplus because there is a bill attached....

    That is when it is MOST OFTEN used in my opinion...a smaller portion may be phones that were reported lost or stolen....
    This would be cloning, and defrauding the carrier.
    I see no LEGIT or RIGHT reason to swap an ESN other than the fact that with the current ESN for whatever reason you want to use that bad esn phone and the carrier DOES NOT want you to...
    another fine example of defrauding the carrier and cloning.
    With all that being said I still say if you own it you can do what you want with it as long as you are not hurting anyone (carriers included). If I had an LG ENV2 with a broken charger port and my friend had an ENV2 he didn't pay the bill on a year ago, that was in pristine condition.... Then if the esn was swapped and the previous phone destroyed (simply because LG charger ports SUCK and break prematurely) Then I do not see the harm in it.... but current law does...
    Repairing a phone with a new MB and repiaring the ESN/MEID to match that on the manufacturer sticker is just that a repair.
    Then another sidenote notice the dates of everything 1998??? Phones just came out... So much has changed since then
    Cellphones have been around alot longer than 1998, the first cellular phone/radio was introduced in World War II. I owned my first bag phone in 1990, upgraded to a brick in 1992.
    To legitimately change an ESN for example from a Samsung A640 to a Motorola Droid there would be legal documents that would need to be submitted to the FCC and both manufacturers. It can be done legally but it is is a head ache.
    Think of the analogy of a cars VIN.
    You want to have a Mercedes Benz but don't want to pay the high taxes, is it ok to change that VIN to one from a Pinto? No it's illegal.

  4. #40
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    I've finally made it through everything referenced and stated here, which took quite a while.
    Anywho... It is my opinion that copying the ESN from a phone (or copying a SIM card) would be extremely difficult to manage in a legal fashion.

    While there may be legal uses for moving an ESN from one phone to another (as long as it is removed from the original), these legal uses have redtape associated with them. Whether that be a waiver from the appropriate legal or commercial entity, or a license to create/change ESNs--either of which would have strict limitations and legal parameters-- is up to the various sections of local, state, and federal law and the manufacturers of the devices (if there are any contractual elements necessitated by the purchase [ie terms of used, et cetera]).
    Illegal uses abound for this process though, and as such it is risky to attempt even the legal uses without strict written permission from the appropriate source.

    Would it be acceptable to exchange (or 'swap') the ESNs on two devices? It would depend on the reasons (and any legal or contractual limitations that are specific to the phones in use for the operation). Let us say that two friends both have identical service plans on their respective networks and each plan comes with a free 'starter' phone and they each prefer the starter phone that the other friend's plan came with. After going through the necessary legal/contractual arrangements, the two friends could have the ESNs on their respective phones flipped so that each had the preferred phone. In my opinion (which is formed by little legal experience, and by the information presented so far here and in a few other places), this would be legal.

    Would it be easier to legally have the ESNs swapped out by the service providers? that would depend on the CS for the respective companies, any activation fees that would apply, et cetera. The proposed route, since it is not being used to defraud (or hypothetically violate contractual agreement or local law) would hence be legal, and potentially cheaper and faster as well.

    If I could find a market for this sort of work, I would definitely approach a lawyer for his interpretations of applicable law et cetera. I would also make any customers who wish to use my service sign off a statement prepared by the aforementioned lawyer that what they are asking me to do is in no way violated their ToS or any local laws, which would take the responsibility off me, since I was providing what I was informed of as a legal service.

    The whole process just seems to me like it would take more than the worthwhile effort to legally do any ESN editing.
    Last edited by xkcd42; 01-03-2011 at 05:25 PM.

  5. #41
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    You raise some good points in your post. The best one is that it is too much trouble to go through to get into the business of changing or even swapping ESN's. As for ESN repair, that seems to be legal. However, in the four years I have been doing this, I have only had to repair a handful of ESN's. Of course I am not counting the ones that are zero'd out due to a flashing procedure such as the LG Banter.

    We forbid any mention of ESN cloning on this website to stay out of trouble. Also, I am not a big fan of cloning or changing ESN's. The reason why is pretty simple. If you are cloning or "swapping" ESN's, you are probably up to no good. This can range from avoiding the $15 charge for an ESN change to flat out stalking someone. They are both wrong and against the law.

    I like your input though.

  6. #42
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    Hi all I am new here but you guys got one of the best discussions going on esn's. I thought I would toss in what I found out.

    Funny I saw people yelling all over the internet about changing esn being illegal, so I did some research. Turns out in California you can't even remove the serial number from your typewriter, dictaphone or any other entertainment or recreational equipment, as well as a ton of other stuff. Even if you bought the item legally and own it out right. See [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    So if the ESN is consisdered the serial number (which I think it is) then in CA you can not change it, swap it, hide it, mark over it or even cover it with a piece of tape. <sarcasm>This is for your own safety people</sarcasm>

    So it seems even removing that tag on your pillow that says "It is illegal to remove this tag" is illegal. I am thinking of removing all the serial numbers from everything I own and taking it down the the police station just to challenge this law. While I understand they are trying to eliminate the sale of stolen property, I just think this is another case of harassing the law abiding people and eliminating our freedom.


 
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