ESN Cloning is illegal!!

[trippymg]

The fraud occurs when a signal transmitted from a tower splits and goes to both devices containing identical MDN,MIN, ESN information. To the best of my knowledge, it is implied that the act of cloning is illegal when there is a duplicate of a "legitimate" cellular device. Legitimate meaning active. I could be wrong but I m pretty sure thats how that works.

I can understand but I dont see how that applys if one of the phones is completely off battery removed how could they both be transmitting signal if the device is off?

[whitey10tc]

I can understand but I dont see how that applys if one of the phones is completely off battery removed how could they both be transmitting signal if the device is off?

The fraud occurs, when two devices have the same Identification. Rather active, inactive, turned off, etc.
Just think of it like a car, or any other pc of electronics no two have the same ESN, Serial number, or VIN. There are legal ways to do it that require a form to be filed, that includes the manufacturer's agreeing to the change in their records and then is submitted to the FCC.

[Mr._Pseudonym]

The fraud occurs when a signal transmitted from a tower splits and goes to both devices containing identical MDN,MIN, ESN information. To the best of my knowledge, it is implied that the act of cloning is illegal when there is a duplicate of a "legitimate" cellular device. Legitimate meaning active. I could be wrong but I m pretty sure thats how that works.

:^/ There's a bit of a misleading concept in your wording, sir. A radio wave from the tower to the phone doesn't get split. Instead, radio waves travel in all directions, so every handset in range picks up all transmissions. It's just that only the handset with the matching MDN, MIN and ESN reacts to the signal by ringing at you. All other handsets ignore it.

[whitey10tc]

I have been read over all the information here and it seems to be very unclear. **All the next statements are clearly what ifs and I am trying to get a more clear picture on which aspects are illegal** Let's say I went to best buy and bought a Sanyo Mirro for boost mobile. I legally purchase this device will full intention of using it for boost mobile. I get home I activate the phone I and use it for a few months. All these new smart phones are coming out with all these new wonderful features. Next I see that many people are using these smart phones from carriers like sprint,verizon, us cellular, and they are activating it with companies like Cricket, Metro PCS, Page Plus etc etc. Now at this point I understand that it is fully legal because they are not altering the esn/meid in anyway but simply having that esn added to the different carriers database. Boost mobile does not allow other carriers meid/esn to be added to there database thus stopping anyway to activate other carriers phones (I understand also the concepts of using sprint.com to activate a non exclusive sprint phone). Now lets say I purchase a used HTC Incredible or similar phone from a private seller on craigslist or similar source. I purchase this phone legally and buy it for the sole purpose of personal use.

This is where everything starts getting blurry, Now I own 2 legally purchased phones. I am using a legally obtainted prepaid service with a phone number and msid ONLY used by me. Now here is my question, regarding the law of cloning/swapping If the 2 phones are completely identical in all information all profiles all msid,mdn,imsi, esn/meid all identifying factors and only 1 device is being used at all times where does the fraud occur. Since i purchased both phones legally and have full intentions of using ONLY services that I am paying for.

I am just trying to understand everyone's input and am curious as to all the legal aspects. In no way am i asking anyone for any information on how to do any of these processes. I am only asking information of United States law and based on the scenario above what the Fraud is or what laws it is violating. AGAIN I AM NOT ASKING FOR ANY INFORMATION WHAT SO EVER ON HOW THESE PROCESSES ARE ACCOMPLISHED OR DONE SIMPLY ON THE LAW IN ACCORDANCE TO THESE PROCESSES.

^^ Just want to be really clear since I am new to the forum and have found this topic really interesing, as everywhere on the web response and input is very different. I know the law can be interpreted differently so I would like to here everyone's input!

I also wanted to add, sense you asked where the fraud would be. Well you would be committing fraud by using a phone that boost does not support or sale. Boost in particular is designed to run their phones through the prepaid division. If you started putting a heavy data using phone like an Incredible on it, it will cause problems with their system and other users. Also if they did an audit of their system they will know that your Android is not a Sanyo or what ever by the id it will broadcast.
And yes there is an ID other than the ESN/MEID it is broadcasted everytime you have a data connection.

[Guest]

According to the FCC and the DOC, it is a violation for you just to have the software capable of writing an ESN unless you are authorized by a person recognized by the authorities as having permission to create/write ESN's. Repair is still wrong in the eyes of the FCC/DOC. Of course, the FCC says that the handset requirements state that while a manufacturer can have the ability to rewrite an ESN, it should be made increasingly difficult to do so.

As far a device being on a network that the network didn't intend or doesn't otherwise allow,.. yeah, it's obviously a breach of the user/service agreements and perhaps anti-trafficking laws.

It's not generally about what might be illegal, it's about what you do that actions might be taken against.

For a simple example for how you might get caught, most phones state what type of device they are when you go online, so the pages look better... this alone could cause the carrier to require you to take your phone in to a dealer to have it checked or forfeit your service. Legal mumbojumbo... the bigger the corporation, the more they generally use.

[andersoncell]

Here's my take on it.

I have opened and ran my cell phone store for almost a year now. I have never cloned or replaced an esn. But CDMA workshop is useful for loading PRL's and manually programming when OTA fails and you can't find the HIDDEN IDIOT codes to access the service programming area of a phone...

With that being said we have to realize WHY would you swap ESN's....

For the MOST PART this is why...

You have a dumb phone (interpreted a basic flip camera phone), you friend who is ON CONTRACT with Verizon has a nice new DROID INCREDIBLE... well your friend decided NOT TO PAY VERIZON ANYMORE and sold you the phone ridiculously cheap... So here you are with a great phone that wont activate on say pageplus because there is a bill attached....

That is when it is MOST OFTEN used in my opinion...a smaller portion may be phones that were reported lost or stolen....

So although I am AGAINST cdma based companies locking down their phones, I can see where you WOULD be defrauding VERIZON by using this phone with a swapped ESN!! Simply for the fact that that is how verizon increases RETENTION and profits, by LOCKING down a phone with an unpaid bill attached....

I see no LEGIT or RIGHT reason to swap an ESN other than the fact that with the current ESN for whatever reason you want to use that bad esn phone and the carrier DOES NOT want you to...

With all that being said I still say if you own it you can do what you want with it as long as you are not hurting anyone (carriers included). If I had an LG ENV2 with a broken charger port and my friend had an ENV2 he didn't pay the bill on a year ago, that was in pristine condition.... Then if the esn was swapped and the previous phone destroyed (simply because LG charger ports SUCK and break prematurely) Then I do not see the harm in it.... but current law does...



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Maybe current law should be changed. A LEGITIMATE telecommunication store should be allowed to atleast swap and destroy the same MODEL of phones.... So just swap esn's on the SAME MODEL and destroy the old phone, for reasons of breakage, water damage etc.... Atleast that would be a positive step...

I feel the lawmakers are lead BY THE carrier lobbyists to believe evil hackers are stealing peoples accounts so that 80 year old politician freaks and therefore there is NO LEGIT reason to do it PRESENTED to the lawmakers... just my take on it